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1212 are you there?

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Today I'm joined by actor, presenter and recently ordained national

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treasure Danny Dyer. Growing up in East London during the 80s, Danny's breakthrough roles

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include Moth in Human Traffic and Chelsea hooligan Tommy Johnson in

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2004's The Football Factory. The success of these roles was double edged,

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leading to Danny being typecast in hard man roles. That was an era when I

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first came across him. He was a sort of resident of the lads mags of the

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early 2000s. He was the man that many young people, young men aspired

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to be. He he had swagger. He was charismatic and

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unapologetically working class and always gave good quote

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which often landed him in hot water. He kind of came unstuck

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in various ways and then was rehabilitated after joining the cast of EastEnders in

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2013 in the role of Mick Carter. He was on the show for nine years. Outside of film

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and TV, Danny had a significant working and personal relationship with playwright and Nobel

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Laureate Harold Pinter, first featuring in his play celebrations in

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2000. We talk about the significance of this relationship in the conversation.

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It's an unlikely pairing, which is why Danny's quite often asked about it,

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although maybe it shouldn't be unlikely. Harold Pinter, the as

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I say, Nobel Prize winning author, acclaimed the highest

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levels of the literary salons of London and New York.

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And and then there's Danny, who was better known for his roles in, you know, these sort of

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soccer hard man roles. And nevertheless, they had this relationship

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of mutual respect and a kind of mentor mentee type bonding.

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Danny also dabbled in the noblest art form of them all documentary

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making. He presented The Real Football Factory and Danny

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Dyer's Deadliest Men. So we talk about, well,

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our common interests in that respect. More recently,

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Danny played the self-made tech millionaire and surprise sex symbol Freddie Jones in the

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Disney Plus adaptation of Jilly Cooper's 1988 Bunk Buster

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Rivals. It's got a lot of rumpy pumpy in it. It's fun. I

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haven't finished watching it, but it's, I mean, a lot of people are talking about it, aren't they? It's an ensemble

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so Danny's not the the main focus, but he's a significant player and brings a kind of low

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key charm to the role

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with his moustache, his Caterpillar like moustache. This one

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was recorded in person in May this year. Danny was here to promote the second series of

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his hit comedy Mr. Big Stuff, which is due out in July on Sky and

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Now TV. He won a Bafta for it. We talked about that. I was there as well.

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A warning, there is strong language in the episode obviously and adult themes

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including substance abuse. All that and much, much more coming up.

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Double espresso. How are you feeling? There's so much amazing,

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really good. I'm. I'm, you know, just incredibly busy. Yeah.

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So it's about juggling stuff. Yeah. And, you know, and it's

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tired and still having a huge clan and grandkids and yeah, all that sort of

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stuff. So it's, it's all it's it's a bit sort of wake up and go, what am I doing today?

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Yeah, but I'm grateful. It's good to be busy. It feels like you're in your prime. It feels

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like, I mean, I'm sure you get this a lot. It feels like you've sort of

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arrived at some sort of moment of everyone saying, like, do you know what? That daddy dies.

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Brilliant. I mean, you've just won a BAFTA, right? Yeah, yeah. Wasn't my night

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unfortunately. You've got some. I've got 3 but I don't like to make a big thing out of it. Wow

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3. Yeah, 312. Three, I don't know if I'll get another one. I think that one's enough for me.

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You know, I, I, I was really surprised I got that. I thought that I've been around a long

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time and I felt that maybe, you know, they'll acknowledge me,

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which is fine. My who do you think you are? Was actually up for one that won it.

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Which was a legendary. For people who don't know that was a legendary episode, They say that's the best ever episode of Who

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do you think you are? Have you heard that? Well, yeah, but I've also heard a lot

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of stuff from these professors who sort of pissed on my parade by

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saying that, well, everyone's related to King Edward the Third, but then. We should for people in Radioland,

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if you didn't see it, you should watch it. But basically, Danny, you discovered that you were a

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descendant of King Edward the Third, but also Thomas Cromwell. Yeah, that was the one who was more

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exciting to me. Yeah, because he was my. He's only my. 5th Oliver Cromwell. No, no, Oliver.

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Although actually they were related as well, but that's another story. 15 times Great grandfather direct.

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To Thomas. To Thomas, who was sort of the hatchet man. To Henry the Eighth,

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famously immortalized by Hilary Mantel in her. Books. Wolf Hall. Wolf Hall.

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Fascinating man, a man who from Putney when his last act

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before he had He's not chopped off, should we say? Was he? He made sure

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his son survived by marrying him off to Elizabeth Seymour,

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my nan sister Jane, Right so. Jane was married to Henry the Eighth.

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Was the only woman he really loved apparently so. So therefore he left

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Gregory alone. He then went on to have a kid and they went on to have a kid. And so if he hadn't have done that, it's

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mad, all that stuff, if he hadn't have got his son saved, then I wouldn't be here. Yeah. So

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there's. So there's something in that. And and I love the fact that he was working class. He was out of Patney from Putney. And

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he he went. To Putney. Well, you know, some, some parts,

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but he, he, he, he went to Florence, he learned languages, he became a lawyer. And that's right.

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And he hadn't, and he had no right to. You know, I would never have

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known. And none of my family know. There's a couple of old voters knocking about. I had a little chat with my dad in

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a pub and he brought out some old voters. But no, no, no, no one knew at all

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what our background was. So I suppose you've got the best people in the world

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working for you running around and finding this stuff out. And so, you know, who

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would have thought my one would have ended up, you know, my last scene being in Westminster Abbey?

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Yeah, well, I'm not a royalist in any way shape of forms that didn't really excite me too much that, but the Thomas Cromwell thing

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did. And and then I went on to watch War 4 after I discovered it was my grandfather. And it

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hits different, you know, because you sort of really do feel. Violence. The wonderful Mark Rylance,

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someone I worked with a long time ago as well, someone I've not come across since one of my first jobs when I was 17 was with

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Mark Rylance and I've. I've said this before on stage. No, it was a, it was ABBC

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2 one off show called Loving. It was me, Mark Rylance, Georgina

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Cates and it was set to a bit like Downton. It was set in a big

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Manor house. He was the Butler, I was his pantry boy, set during the Second World War.

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And it was sort of a love triangle type vibe. But it was really early days for me and it was the

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first time I'd come across, shall we say, a proper actor. And I was fascinated

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by this man. It's quite a shy, meek, you know, hardly

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any presents until you said action. And then I went, oh,

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wow, that's what acting is come alive. You know, you just can take your eyes off him. And then

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they'd say cut and then go back into. So he really did become the and I just watched him,

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you know, we got him really well, but I just watched him, studied him. He had a dictaphone. That's how long ago it was. It was

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the early 90s and he had a dictaphone. He would listen to notes. And I mean, he was

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just fascinating to be in front of. Did he obviously went on to be, I think, artistic director at the

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Globe, synonymous with Shakespeare? Have you? Have you done Shakespeare?

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No, I don't think it's for me. Really. No, I,

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you know, I understand that. It's as actors, you know, especially

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your Hamlet and all that, you know, that's what you should be doing. I don't get it. I don't understand

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it. I struggle with the rhythm of it. I totally respect everyone that does it. I absolutely

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do. And I just don't feel it. I don't find it funny,

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you know, And some people laugh at it and I go, well, I don't know what we're laughing at here. I just

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can't. So for me, acting is the musicality of

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words and the rhythm of words and making words interesting. And I've

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tried with reading Shakespeare and I just don't get it, understand it. My

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little brain won't, you know, It just doesn't. It doesn't warm to it for some reason, so

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who knows in in 10 years time when I become an older boy, maybe I

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will get amongst it, but doesn't excite me. I need to be excited by dialogue,

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you know? Do you? You were talking about who? Who do you think you are? And

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one of the surprises in reading up on you was that you were, how do

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I say it, not totally sober when making that. Well, who do you think you are? Yeah,

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well, I suppose I'll be really open about my life, probably far too open about my struggles and. But that's

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been part of your gift in a way, is that you've sort of not been shy of oversharing.

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Well, I think it goes back to my working class works. You've just been an honest, authentic person and not ever trained. I never

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trained and I certainly never had media training or anything like that. And I think I've always just been

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me. And that's why I think I divide people because over you get me or you don't. And that's fine,

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I suppose. I do talk with a slight swagger. I swear a lot. I know that. And I'll probably swear more

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when I'm nervous. But I was brought up in a very sweary environment.

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But yeah, I, I struggled a lot with especially when I became

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famous. And whatever that is or what that means, you, you lose

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touch of who you are, I think. And I think this goes for most people that are famous, whatever level of

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fame you've got and whatever you represent to people. And I suppose that I represented, I mean, my first film that

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made me films was a film called Human Traffic, which is completely about hedonism. And I was the the

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craziest one on it. I suppose I took the most drugs on it. And you know, that came out in 99.

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So, you know, all of a sudden people just wanted to take loads of drugs with me, which I, I was down for and. You were. You were

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22. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just so

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my Danny had just been born. She was like 2 or two. And I you. Were 19. Yeah, just turned. I just turned 19

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when Danny was born. That's. I mean, that's. That's yeah. I, I, I think it's men. I don't

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want to generalize. I think we struggle paternally takes years. I think when you

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have a child at 1819, you know, you don't know who you are yet. And yet you've got a little baby in

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a crib that needs to be brought up and nurtured and looked after and so. You were full time with her mum at that.

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You'd met Joanne when you were 13. When we went to school with her. Yeah, yeah. So you've been together six years

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at least? Yeah. Was it a planned can? I ask that no, no, not really. Of course it wasn't,

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you know, she was always very maternal anyway. And you know, she, she

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just assured us that it would be fine. But I, I, I did struggle with it. I, I, you

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know, I didn't quite know, especially because the younger days of being an

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actor as well, which is such an insecure job. And, you know, I was going

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through a bit of a bad stage with getting roles because because as a kid, I

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got every role. And then I got to an age where I was I couldn't play a man or a

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child anymore because I was me voice broke, couldn't grow a beard, big, tall, sort of gangly.

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So I I started to get a lot of rejection at the time of the baby was born. And I thought, oh, well, how do I provide now?

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And my Joe was even saying, listen, maybe you got to give this up. You know, maybe you've got to think of another route. It just, I've

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said this a few times, you know, it just gave me a different drive and ambition and. What would been you? What would have been your Plan

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B? Did you have A? Not really. I didn't have fashion. Well, I I joined a temping agency

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and obviously unskilled I just to go out and labour. Yeah, so. It was a

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lift operator for a little while on the building side, just pressing the lift up and down, sweeping up

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sawdust, you know, doing all that sort of stuff, that really hard loading skips. And every

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time I loaded that skip, I thought, this ain't for me, there's something else for me. But you

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were saying that when you got famous, you lost the plot in a bit. Is that what you were saying?

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Yeah, I did. Yeah, of course I did. Your identity and you've also said that. I became a bit of a cartoon character and I played up

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to it a lot. I didn't quite know how to deal with it or people knowing who you are. It's a huge thing to give away.

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So, you know, like your privacy in that and was. This on the back of human traffic. Or well, look, I I

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started from human traffic, I suppose, because it was a really well received film. And it was. It was football factory. Was that soon

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afterwards? Football Factory was about five years after. Because that's a few goodbye.

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2004 Charlie Bright I wasn't the lead in that so that and it wasn't really, he didn't really do the business

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it should have done. Charlie Bright We released that film. It was my first film with Nick Love who I went on to make another

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5 films with. We, we brought it out on a really hot summer and now I went to the cinema and he

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died of death. And that was the days of DVD and DVDs were obviously my saviour for a lot of my

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career really, because you know, a lot of my films did die death at the cinema. But then you

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always have DVDs to fall back on and you know, sort of known as DVD Dan for a little while,

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which I, which I don't mind Listen, I, I didn't give AI didn't give a shit about that because you know, I did a

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lot of jobs where they would just put my face on a DVD and it would sell over

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1020 thousand units. Then it's a success really. So, so that was a whole period of my life

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which. So they would not do well at the cinema but then they do well on DVD. What was your

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What do you think your is your best Nick Love collaboration? Well, I think the one that's probably spoke about in

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the highest regard is probably either the football factory or the

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business, yeah. Football factory. I watched to prepare for this. It's it holds up like, it's not

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like high art, right? It's not the Godfather. I don't think, I don't think, no, no, I don't

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think we make films, but it's very watchable. It's artistic about character development when

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it's authentic, you know, especially now that elite people are making elite films for other elite people and they'll

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Chuck working class people in it now and again. But you know, when it's, you know, Nick being a working class, he's actually a middle class

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kid. From southeast London. Yeah, but but, you know, the people we put in it, as you can see, are real people.

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We should say it was, but it's based on the John King novel Football Factory. Yeah, but this is the brilliant thing what Nick Love

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does is that he, I I'm, I'm the leaker, which is my story. And I am a

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hooligan and I'm a drug taking hooligan and I swear a lot and I'm a bit of a loon, but actually I'm questioning it. Yeah. So

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so he he, he has this thing where I'm sort of the anti hero. I'm not sort of celebrating it.

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I'm going, oh, is this, am I doing? What is this worth it? You know, meeting up every Saturday,

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you know, having a chair up with complete strangers and then going back to work, going back, you know, it's

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tribalism. You know, we, we, it's a very controversial film because

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people were saying we were glamorizing it and all this sort of stuff. And. Who said that? Well, usually the critics and

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stuff like that or people that want to commentate on it, of course people that probably didn't like the film. But it it,

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it we took we we went on tour around the country and we

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sat in cinemas with hooligans. So we went to Cardiff

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with the Soul Crew. When you released it? Just before really so pre that we what's. The

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Cardiff crew called. The soul crew, the soul crew and you know, you sit with them and

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then we watch it and of course it's the, you know, you sort of represent in that culture. And so you never know quite know it's going to

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go down. Some had some issues with the fact that they wasn't mentioned enough, you

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know, because they are all sort of rivals. I mean, if you think about it, it's quite childish, the whole thing, you know, You know,

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geezers running around and bashing each other up over what?

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But you can't ignore it. No. You know, it's again, something that's,

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you know, not so prevalent now, I think maybe in the lower divisions somewhat, but

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it is about belonging to something. It is that gang culture. Do you? Think it's more in the lower division.

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It's not well. It would be now because there's no, because there's, you know, it's, it's, we'd call it in the football

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factory. We call it the radio, which is the CCTV. So you know, we live in a

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world of HD television now. So you know, the idea of being able to meet 2 miles away from the ground, which is

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what they would do, you know they will ban on banning orders. So, you know, they will go and meet, cut the miles away,

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have a big chair up and then all and then all slip off and go back to their

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wives and go back to, you know, something fascinating about that for sure. Do what I mean, We're in a

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bit of a tangent, but it's something I'm interested in over the years. You know you're a documentary

00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:09.599
maker like you made. Well, I've made a couple, but I'm not like you. I I don't pitch these ideas. I just. Say that you're

00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:14.559
not on me. But then one of the things that turned up while I was doing my research was someone said

00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:20.359
Danny Dyer is the People's Louis Theroux from 2017. It was an article in

00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:25.359
Shortlist. He has a quality which most television interviewers seem to lack. He goes to meet those people with no

00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:29.799
preconceptions, seems legitimately interested in them, is more concerned with actually

00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:34.640
listening than talking at them. His boyish enthusiasm and on it. You know what I mean. He's sick.

00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:39.640
Made me absolutely sick to read that, but you fume. I was few. I threw. I threw my computer

00:17:39.640 --> 00:17:44.400
across the room in. Disgust. No, but you, you, you come up with ideas and you pitch them and you've got a

00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:49.440
energy. I only really did them stuff and I'm assuming it was really so 2017 I'm thinking. It was a

00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:54.279
revisit of of World's Most Dangerous. Man, Danny Dyer's deadliest

00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:59.279
man. This is something I didn't want to do. I did it to get on the property ladder. And that's the truth. I've

00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:04.160
made a lot of films for no money. And I thought, well, when's the money start coming in? Because now I'm

00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:08.799
famous and I and, and I don't have any money. So I was thinking, so when does that

00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:13.799
start? You know, when do I start to live a life where I go, oh, actually it's worth it. It's fine because

00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:18.920
I can give my family a good life. And that came along. Bravo came along, offered me

00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:23.640
this thing, a lot of money for me for six weeks to run around crazy. That you'd be

00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:28.680
given more money to be in ATV documentary than in a hit movie. It would

00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:33.359
become a success when I'm, when I made the football factory, I was on £500 a

00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:38.240
week. So it was equity minimum, which is fine. It was my, you know, my first lead role. So

00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:43.480
for then it was about an opportunity to go, can I hold the screen for,

00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:48.440
you know, an hour and a half my story? Can you care about me? That's that's when you start honing your craft.

00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:53.559
So you're not really entitled to money at that point. I went on to earn a lot of money on DVD, weirdly so.

00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:58.319
Who got that money? Well, the company, you know, the the people made it go would have been

00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:03.359
going maybe so you wouldn't. Get residuals. You wouldn't get residuals from the. Little bit, but you

00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:08.240
get a point of a point of a point. Yeah, Hollywood accounting. You know, which is fine. And and again, it was about

00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:13.680
how does it how's it going to go down? It went down really well. And I proved that I could be a leading man. That's that's what you want as an

00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:18.640
actor. So, so anyway, then my profile ways and then they came to me Bravo and went, oh, he's quite famous now and he's sort of well

00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:23.119
known for that film. So that's gone. Delve a bit deeper and do the real football

00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:28.039
factories. You know, they pitched me the idea and I thought, fucking hell. Wow. OK, so I've

00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:32.400
got to run around the country meeting fans of mine because we was

00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:37.359
representing these people in this film. So I'd already got past the first barrier where

00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.720
they love me. So, you know, I'm meeting really naughty, dangerous people in pubs

00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:46.839
who never go on the telly but trusted me enough to go on the telly. And

00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:51.759
so I just sort of I embraced it and thought, OK, you've got to commit, you know, do it

00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:57.240
and try. And because what what they tried to do was go, OK, Danny Don's

00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:02.119
on a journey of trying to find out why people do it. You're never going to find out what it is. But they wanted me to always have sort of a Jerry

00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:07.119
Springer moment at the end of every EP, which which also went on to the deadliest memoir. I sort

00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:12.079
of. You know, I, I try and sum up these characters, which I, I, I really, I don't think you

00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:17.000
can do that. But it, it was a tough job. You give a lot away

00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:22.160
when you're walking around with a camera in your face. You know of who you are. Well, especially

00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:26.880
you did because you did so many pieces to camera. Like you do an intro where you're like in the

00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:31.559
car. So I've only watched one of these, but I watched it at the time. Funnily enough, it was the Peddie

00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:36.559
Doherty 1 Irish Gypsy Traveller bare knuckle fighter based in Salford, outside

00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:41.440
Manchester. This is right, Yeah, Yeah. And then you arrive and he's a real character.

00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:46.319
Real character, yeah, he's. He's he was 50 at the time, but he was built like a shit house, if I can use that

00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:51.279
expression and had been through some extraordinary bare knuckle fights. And then

00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:56.359
my point really is just that you arrive and you're kind of holding it all together with like constantly

00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:01.319
commenting to the camera saying like I'm breaking it. To be honest, here I am. I don't know what's going to go down me,

00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:06.000
a copy arriving here on a Gypsy Travellers site, I think

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:11.000
probably. Become a bit of a meaning. Turning it up a bit because I don't know. You've got, you've been. Invited. So

00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:16.000
they weren't really going to attach, Yeah. Well, listen. Ramping up the jeopardy you. Never know again.

00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:20.960
I think my fame and my what I represented gets me past that first. Yeah. I mean, I think you would

00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:25.720
have struggled, Lou, no disrespect. If you walk into a traveller's site, I've. Been I've been to that 10. That actual

00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:30.519
one, do you know what? In Salford, yes. And OK, this is my embarrassing

00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:35.400
confession. I don't think it was because I'd seen or independently. I was thinking like, I need to make more shows in the

00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:40.240
UK. What's an interesting world in the UK that is redolent of a little bit of

00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:45.039
secrecy, maybe even perceptions of danger, whether they're fair or unfair.

00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:50.720
And I started thinking about travellers and traveller communities. And then with the bare knuckle fighting, I thought,

00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:56.119
well, if you could see something of that, that's a great like episode of something Louis Theroux in the

00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:01.039
world of the Irish Travellers. And then it's part of the research. I think that's how I came across your dock. And I thought

00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:06.000
like, what a great character. I thought this is extraordinary. And then we filmed up

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:10.960
there on the site for two or three days and got I think some of the same stories. Like he says to

00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:15.880
you, one of the things he says is, shall I do the accent? I'll eat you like a Yorkie bar. He was

00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:20.640
trying to make a point in the, in the in the, you know, there's a dirty go or

00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:25.680
or. There's a there's a fair go a. Fair go and a dirty go. So what he would do if it was a dirty

00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:30.640
go is he would bite their lip off and swallow it. And swallow it so. That they couldn't stitch it back

00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:35.440
or. Their finger. Their finger. Bite the finger off and swallow it because there's no rules. Yeah, there's no rules. That's it. And so he

00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:40.240
would. Suck your eyeball out and right snuffle it down like a gob. Stopper, you know. You

00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:44.799
believe the man you know because you know it's a very well you don't.

00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:49.759
Disbelieve it. You just genuinely don't know. You're like, did you? Travellers don't really go on the telly as

00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:54.440
well. This is the thing that's fascinating me. They don't, they don't really deal with the police obviously, or the

00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:59.400
authorities in a lot of cases. Hospitals, you know, they deal with their own stuff, they deal with their own

00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:04.319
disputes, they're their own community. And I find that fascinating. I

00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:09.240
mean living there. I mean I lived there and he got got me a little caravan. But how many? But in doc in, you know, we

00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:13.920
can man to man, we can say this probably for a documentary. You just do one night really, right?

00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:19.319
I've done a couple. Did you? Yeah. Did you? But I think that I I I'm sure used to it by

00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:24.200
things. I've done quite a few by and that that that you know, because I think we did 2 series of Deadliest Mints and the

00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:28.720
second one they wanted me to stay the night. To live with them. And I thought, well, it's a bit

00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:33.559
strong, you know, like you. Had your own but. Because they wanted me to be laying in bed and oh God, I'm

00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:38.400
shitting myself. You do, you do send that up a little bit in a sense of, you know, I never really felt in danger. It was a couple of

00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:43.200
moments I had when I was in Poland and you know, it got a bit tricky. The The thing is,

00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:48.200
is that you, you, you gotta remember that you're interviewing someone, you make them your subject,

00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:53.119
but you know, when they're talking about, you know, biting peoples lips off or punching people or doing whatever they're doing, there are

00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:58.039
victims involved who will be watching it. Who will, you know, have the

00:23:58.039 --> 00:24:02.839
up with me in saying, oh, I'm celebrating it when I'm not really. You gotta be neutral within these things.

00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:07.599
But you gotta win him over as well. And he took me under his wing. It did get tricky one night in a Bowser. He nutted

00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:12.559
someone and then he jumped in a Moat and left me on my own, weirdly in the same pub. Shane Wald was in

00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:17.559
there. That's right. That's all in the SO. So it was all, it was all quite odd to Will, but I never I never enjoyed doing it

00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:22.519
and I and I knew. You didn't enjoy doing it? No. No, but it got me on the puppet ladder, so actually it was a point to it.

00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:27.759
So the point was that I could finally, you know, put deposit down on a house and get out of a

00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:32.759
council estate. So I did move away from my my, the area

00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:37.559
I was brought up in and we moved to Essex, A step up for us for sure.

00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:42.519
What about you said that you'd think I'd struggle on the travellers site because what, they'd think I was a

00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:47.359
posh kid and see me coming? Absolutely I did. You're fair game with them and I think that you sort of

00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:52.359
trying to understand them and it. Feels. Like, it's very different for me who can

00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:57.160
walk on there. And of course, some people, you know, didn't like me. Why would they? Some

00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:02.160
people don't trust cameras, you know, Of course I'm on this journalistic thing, which again, it's almost me,

00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:07.559
you know, talking about them in a way like they are subjects, which again is a bit

00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:12.440
off putting for people, I get it. But at least I speak in a certain way and I've made films about

00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:17.279
violence and stuff like that, whereas you represent something different. So I could understand that they could

00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:22.079
maybe not bully you up, but tease you a bit, take the piss a bit. Bullying. I can

00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:26.839
take like in a weird way that sort of. Masculinity thing, go on. Just that's what I'm

00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:31.839
saying, in the sense of do they see you as a masculine man? And what's the answer? Can

00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:36.839
I imagine you have a fag hanging out of your mouth, you know, sort of swearing and, you know,

00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:41.640
just generally doing anything slightly naughty, you know what I mean? Would you be friends with the old Bill?

00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:46.519
Probably. You know what I'm saying? Like, I can imagine you have a dinner party. You might know

00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:51.240
ADC. Yeah. You know, nothing wrong with that. But loose talk, They they would look at it as

00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:56.319
especially if you're surrounded by loads of them. I went to Appleby. Did you go to Appleby? No. Yeah, That we. We bailed

00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:01.279
on it after three nights. It was mainly because Paddy was also filming with the Channel 4 crew at the

00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:06.079
same time, but hadn't told us. And we couldn't really. You can't do a document. It was like you'd like. It was like he had two

00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:11.000
wives, you know. And he was like, we were turning up on one day saying, all right, Paddy, how's it going? And then he said, oh, I can't film

00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:15.960
tomorrow. We're like, oh, why not? Because I'm a bit busy. And then it would turn out Channel 4 was there filming something. Exactly because he also went on to do

00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:20.720
Big Brother after Maya thing. So no one who won any money, he won it. So so and

00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:25.680
again, I think the travelling community frowned upon that because obviously, like I said, they don't really

00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:30.480
want to provide around on the television talking about their lives too much because it's a very much secret

00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:35.039
society. I find it fascinating. And I will say this, you know, I love my traveller fans. You know, I

00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:39.920
do now and again have travellers come up to me and and they're all Paddy's cousin by the

00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:44.799
way, of course. And shake me hand and you know, whatever fight with me and stuff. And you know, I,

00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:49.759
I, I, you know, I love them. I get a lot of love for it, you know, and I thought why I've gone the other way slightly.

00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:55.119
For the doc for the. You might be and also just me all of a sudden becoming like what you do

00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:00.079
being a journalist on a journalistic sort of crusade, You know, that

00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:04.680
never sat right with me. I did it purely to get an ass and I do. I

00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:09.680
do think it came and backfired on me and still does slightly in a sense of, you know,

00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:14.640
there's still a lot of people that just don't, can't think I'm like the worst actor ever, you know, that they

00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:19.559
just don't, they just, they just plays himself. I think it's the most common one I get. But, you know, the fact

00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:24.519
that, you know, some people can call me a good actor, they just find it laughable. And I think it stems from this. You

00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:29.440
can't please everyone. Of course you can't. And maybe there are people out there that think I'm rubbish, but you know, I think it stems

00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:34.359
from that stuff and me, you know. The quote you gave in the Guardian was if there's one thing I regret

00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:39.319
about my career, it's that I didn't let my acting do the talking. Well, yeah, I think if you if you've got

00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:44.119
the luxury of and there's a lot of actors out there that that do

00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:49.000
press, but don't they drown on about nothing. And the

00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:53.599
less you give away about your life, the more exciting you are on screen as an actor, aren't you? So,

00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:58.559
you know, if you've spoken as openly as I have and you know,

00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:03.559
I've got a certain way with words, turn of phrase, and then you see me do it on a show

00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:08.640
acting, then people, the people that supposedly know everything about

00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:13.599
acting would look at me and go, well, it's just plain himself. But again, I

00:28:13.599 --> 00:28:18.599
also think that actors play their self like you're bringing a character to life, but

00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:23.319
your toolbox is you. You know, your traumas and, and, and the most

00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:28.319
interesting parts about you is what you use to be a a

00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:33.240
good actor. I've always been from the theory that just because you can do

00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:38.240
accents doesn't make you a chameleon. You know what I mean? Most actors do do the same

00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:43.119
thing if you watch them closely enough, you know what I mean? Yeah, very rare actors that the Daniel

00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:48.000
Day Lewis is saying. Maybe Killian Murphy's Well. It's real chameleons, they they.

00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.960
They never really do the same thing. I mean, I said it at the BAFTA is about Ryan Sampson, if you. If you know it's a good speech book, I'm

00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:57.880
glad we're back back at the BAFTA, because the other things you won your BAFTA, you went up, you nailed the speech. Thank you. I didn't think I did

00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:02.759
see I I thought I completely fucked it up because. What makes you say? Because I was so emotional and I don't you.

00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:07.480
Didn't I? Don't. You didn't. Stop, but I didn't know. Did you cry? No, I caught my breath a couple of times.

00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:12.640
You said I want to pay tribute to Ryan Sampson, creator of the Thing. You see the best thing he's

00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:17.400
ever. He's the best thing that ever came out of Rotherham. Then you said, which isn't saying a lot. Which is fair? Which? Was a good

00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:22.160
joke, which is you have that one in your back. Pocket Yeah, I had a few about him, actually, but I couldn't get it

00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.640
out. I thought all your other jokes, I thought start with a joke. Of course I went up there

00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:32.000
and obviously this time I you know, it's such a moment. It's such a moment. I looked at my

00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:36.839
two daughters, so stunning, and they were crying and I thought, oh, OK. So my opening line

00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:41.839
was best comedy performance. That's

00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:46.240
because my acting was so bad. It was funny. That got too much of A laugh.

00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:53.039
And I thought, I've got them there. But then I thought, no, be grown up. Be be, don't swear. You know people going to expect

00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:58.039
you. And I know it's a classy event. You dropped 3F bombs I think. Yeah, they cut around it Lovely. By the way,

00:29:58.039 --> 00:30:02.920
I don't know they did that you. Said fuck three times. I know I did, and each one got a laugh. If it was only when I was choked, I went fuck me,

00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:07.680
I'm choked so I and I was. And then got a laugh. And then I sort of had to breathe. And then I

00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:12.799
wanted to thank people because because I've not really done that over the years. I've won awards before and I and

00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:17.799
I and I, and you probably should thank people. So I wanted to thank Haley Sterling, who was the producer on this, The

00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:22.759
Oracle, Just an amazing human being. And of course, the other actors in this show, Mr. Big Stuff, which is

00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:27.799
such a clever show. It's really good show and. And, you know, and I thought, you know, it was Ryan that

00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:32.799
wrote this for me. He gave me this gift like. Did he have you in mind when he wrote? Yeah, he said to

00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:37.559
me. His story is this. We met on plebs a long time ago. Plebs is a sitcom. Set in the Roman

00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:42.519
times a bit like The Inbetweeners sitting in the moment and I remember doing this I was on it for a week and I remember seeing this actor

00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:47.440
and he played Grumio with his but this bowl haircut again a bit method

00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:52.400
just unbelievable what he was doing the choices. He was like, wow, he was this kid and he was sort of alluded to that Oh, you

00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:57.000
know, I'm have an idea for me and you, you know, and all this and stuff. Anyway, and it's seen him for 10 years, but

00:30:57.200 --> 00:31:02.039
he went away and wrote this thing for me and him by this time I was in EastEnders. And so he

00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:07.599
wrote this script about two brothers, you know, 2 estranged brothers are going to come back together. Two

00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:12.559
different sides of masculinity, one being really sensitive, one being alpha. And, and he wrote it for me. And then he

00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:17.480
went to his agent and his agent said, you do know he's in EastEnders and will never be able to do this. And so

00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:22.440
he was so deflated. He hadn't even considered that. And so anyway, he he.

00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:27.200
If you're in EastEnders, you can't do. Any 'cause you can't? Absolutely no. It takes up your whole life. You haven't got time.

00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:32.039
So there's no rules against. It but it also goes into the whole working for the BBC thing, doesn't it? If you're working for the

00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:36.759
BBC then you know it's publicly funded money so you can't be seen to be going

00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:41.759
off and earning money elsewhere, which is why you're not allowed. I think it's slightly changing. You know you're not allowed to

00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:46.680
go off and do adverts and brand deals and you know, especially when you're in EastEnders because you know you.

00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:51.680
Then it's like the character on the show is endorsing a. I suppose

00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:56.200
it depends if the show made you famous or not and then you're only really known for that

00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:01.079
character that maybe they might have more issues with it, but there was no way in the world they

00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:05.920
would, especially with Mr. Big stuff it All. That's a funny show. It's quite controversial

00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:11.519
anyway. He went out after he told, he was told it's not going to happen because then he's in EastEnders. He

00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:16.359
had a bit of a Bender. He went to a petrol garage in the morning and then he

00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:20.359
saw the newsstand. Dire leaves EastEnders. So he he went,

00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:26.279
this is a sign this is meant to happen. So and again, I hadn't spoke to him in

00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:31.039
a long time and I I was not aware of this. This wasn't one of the decisions why I left or anything like that. It was just about,

00:32:31.400 --> 00:32:36.039
you know, me going, do you know what? I want to see if there's anything else out there for me, you know what I mean? So I just run my

00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:40.000
contract down. But so, so I, I didn't know this was bubbling away in the background.

00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:45.920
And so then anyway, he got a new energy for it and sent it to me and I read it and I was like, wow, this

00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:50.400
is incredible. Can we get it made? I said, listen, I'm up for it. I'm so up for this.

00:32:50.680 --> 00:32:55.519
He'd not. He's an actor, right? He hadn't written. Had you written anything before? No, I think he'd wrote a couple of short

00:32:55.519 --> 00:33:00.240
films and stuff. But you know, he's, he's a little gay guy from Rotherham who's always been

00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:05.039
obsessed with masculinity and so that's why he wrote it. And so it's something that he

00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:09.880
and he always had me in mind. He said if it wasn't, if I couldn't have played the role, he wouldn't have done it. So, you know,

00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:13.880
he got it made and it was, it was my first real

00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:19.480
chance to to be in something funny. Your other joke was you said

00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:24.640
Ryan does something different with each role, not something that could be said about myself. Greatest

00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:29.599
actors this country's ever produced. Never done the same thing twice, which is not something

00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:34.279
I can say again, too much of a big laugh. Got a big laugh. Have you

00:33:34.359 --> 00:33:39.359
ever played? What's the furthest you've got from kind of, you know, that

00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:44.200
sort of Danny Dyer persona in in a role? Have you done Posh in in a role? I I did

00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:47.359
one film a long time ago. It was only a small part,

00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:53.960
but I think probably why my life has gone a bit crazy at the moment is Rivals. I

00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:58.720
think that it's not about being posh, it's about physicality and

00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:03.440
showing something completely different. Sensitive. Yeah, but. He's a

00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:08.320
working. Class. Good, though, isn't he? But. He's powerful, you know, he's got a brilliant brain. You

00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:12.960
know, he's he's brought technology to the country. That's how brilliant is. He speaks Japanese, you know, but

00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:17.880
he's also got a real vulnerability about him in a soft side. So, you know, it's about

00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:22.679
me just showing a different side that I I knew I was capable of. But people

00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:27.519
taking a risk, you know, I'm working with some Titans in this show,

00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:32.760
David Tennant and Aiden Turner, Victoria Smurfit. I've got to say,

00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:37.719
Alex Hassle, who plays Rupert Gamble Black, is so surprised he didn't get acknowledged more for

00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:42.280
what he done. He had the hardest role. He's. The Lady Killer, isn't he? He's the. Campbell Black He's

00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:47.480
he's the ultimate man, ultimate Jilly Cooper as well the most. Episode he starts he's

00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:52.480
he's having sex with a woman in a Concorde in a Concorde. It's

00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:57.360
all based on the Jilly Cooper novel. It's a bunk Buster. Yeah, yeah, you could call that's what they

00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:02.280
called it back in the day. But in the day it's it's a nice. Slice of life though, isn't it? Of that era.

00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:07.000
80s takes the 80's the 80s Very Thatcher. Very Tory heavy, yeah, but.

00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:12.159
Sort of. Is it Chilton set? Russia. Russia. Russia. It's a fictional. Fictional. It's a

00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:16.920
fictional. Cotswold, really where she lives, Cotswolds and you know she. Riding horses, playing

00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:21.800
tennis. Not a lot of animals, lot of dogs running around a lot. Of they turn up at a dinner party and one bloke goes and

00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:26.639
has sex with a woman in another room while the dinner party's going on. Yes, absolutely. What the

00:35:26.719 --> 00:35:31.639
hell? But I don't think it was being apologetic about the 80s and I think that's what people appreciated it. But it's

00:35:31.639 --> 00:35:36.519
also. I haven't got far enough into it. Do you end up having some sort of an affair? Maybe that's a spoiler.

00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:41.440
Perhaps, Yeah, isn't it so? So they'll know. Yeah. Do you get your kids off? How

00:35:41.480 --> 00:35:46.239
bother you get at the end? I, I had a result with that really, because my coats are sort of what they managed to

00:35:46.239 --> 00:35:50.880
do with the, my coats of Freddie and Lizzie was they, everyone's having an affairs left, right and centre,

00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:56.400
mostly for power, using sex for power. And there's

00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:00.599
2 characters that are married to awful people

00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:06.119
but have models. And so they're trying to do the right thing and stay in their marriages, but they're so drawn to

00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:10.840
each other and they resist, resist, resist until the very last step when they

00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:15.800
just think, why are we resisting this? You know, there, there's a complete connection. We don't say

00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:20.000
much to each other through the series. It's a lot of looks. It's a lot of what is unsaid

00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:25.519
and a lot of people were saying never before they rooted for an affair more than on this

00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:28.480
show. And so we we pulled it out of the bag.

00:36:53.230 --> 00:36:57.349
Let's talk about you and you know what, before we move on

00:36:57.550 --> 00:37:02.519
UFOs, because that's the other overlap. I haven't, I failed at my

00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:07.320
Paddy Doherty. But you, you, you made Danny, Danny Dyer. I believe in UFOs. Yes, I did. Yes. I made a

00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:11.840
UFOs documentary they're actually having. One of it. I

00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:16.719
don't as such identify as a believer. So you honestly think that

00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:21.159
our planet is we're the only things that exist? Well, we can't know that,

00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:26.159
but I don't know that, no. I would be be weird if there wasn't another planet somewhere. But the

00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:31.119
question is, are they visiting, isn't it? Are they actually coming and

00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:36.039
mixing it up with us? Yeah. Are they more? Are they logically advanced that they can do? That

00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:40.639
they A can do it and B, that the people who are saying that they're having experience. Say I would say

00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:45.239
yes, I think why? Why not? Have you had a contact? I know in your documentary you see some

00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:50.199
lights. I'm not trying to belittle. But that was actual UFOs because what is a UFO? Unidentified flying object, right?

00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:55.320
So it wasn't aeroplanes. So it was an old going through the sky. So then that's a UFO.

00:37:55.320 --> 00:38:00.199
So whatever you want to make of that, that's the fact now. And I know that

00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:04.519
because I went to Mount Adams, Colorado, and

00:38:05.559 --> 00:38:10.400
there's a man in there that's well known for UFOs flying in and out of it, which again, sounds fucking ridiculous. But

00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:15.280
actually, you know, when they got their laptops out and showed the flight paths and all that of it, these are

00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:20.199
not aeroplanes. And you see it. I met that guy Stan Romanick, who I found really

00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:25.079
fascinating. That's. The guy who said he'd been taken up on a UFO and had been chipped I think. Has been

00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:30.159
abducted since he was a child. What regularly? Regularly. Randomly. You'd think that

00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:34.800
would be easy to check, wouldn't you? Like. That but then, but then, yeah,

00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:39.760
they found that thing under his skin, which is in from this world, this planet.

00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:44.599
He shows you a picture of it. But then you said. Again, you'll say. You'll look. You've got a smirk on your face. Because in the documentary then you

00:38:44.599 --> 00:38:49.480
said, but then he did ask us for £50,000 to show his footage. I was trying to, he's

00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:54.360
trying to monetize it. I I get that. Yeah, I'm really laughing because you. You no, I know I get it, but I sort of

00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:59.039
go at the time I was fuming because I wanted to, you know, show, show a lot of stuff what he

00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:04.000
showed me. But but if you think about it, look, listen, I've reached the truth. I was talking shite. There's no to

00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:08.760
in in but I, I think if he is telling the truth, no one will believe you

00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:13.679
anyway. That's the thing. So, you know, imagine if this stuff was happening to you and no one believes you. He

00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:18.400
said a lot about the many black people following him around and tell him to shut his mouth and.

00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:23.599
Secret US agency personnel, Yeah. I mean, you know, the classic really don't talk. It's

00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:28.440
Area 51 we don't talk about. God, no, they can't fly over there. If you, if you get caught walking further, you will be

00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:33.440
shot. You know why? So you know, there's something in it. You know, some of the stories he

00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:38.360
told me, I think the first story he told me, which was about when he was sitting on a swing and this woman came up

00:39:38.360 --> 00:39:43.320
to him with huge eyes and she just leant in and she, her lips didn't move. And she

00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:48.199
said, you're a very special child. You know, that. It's sort of little stories. Like, again, you're laughing at me loud. But I,

00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:53.000
I, I like, I love the idea of someone actually, if it has

00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:57.960
happened, talking about it. Look, listen, some of the footage that he showed me with,

00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:02.639
you know, the, the, the alien coming in his kitchen and stuff. I've said this

00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:07.599
before. It did look a bit like the the late, great Paul Daniels. The one I saw

00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:12.360
was there's a video and it's behind a screen door and then a a kind of

00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:17.320
sorceride classic, yeah. So the lights go. Yeah, that's right. So the lights go. It looked like a

00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:22.079
child wearing a Halloween mask. Well, yes. Didn't it? But then what do we know

00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:26.679
about what aliens look like? No. Fair enough. Maybe that's the shape of it, But yeah, I

00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:32.280
get it. I understand why it's laughable. There was another one which I thought it

00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:37.199
wasn't a mask with. When it comes in,

00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:42.760
it gets in and he's sort of screaming and that and he's sort of in the living room and it and then you see

00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:47.719
the long fingers come round the door and it and it pulls its head round and it,

00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:53.599
I mean, you're in bits here. I mean, I was like, well, again, either this is the truth and

00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:58.039
he's showing me footage of it's shite and he's lying to me. There's no in between.

00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:03.480
And, you know, I think it's 5050. You know what, Why not? What? What, you know, this

00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:07.159
and this, the stranger things going on on this planet at the moment. Yeah, it's a bit of fun.

00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:14.320
Can we talk a bit about we should talk about something, well, not that's not serious, but something equally

00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:19.320
serious or even more serious in terms of growing up. Can we talk

00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:24.320
about a bit about growing up And, you know, Custom House East London? You've described it as a, you

00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:29.159
know, loving, but in some ways like was a hardscrabble working class upbringing, right?

00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:34.360
You, you discovered at one point, you know, you're, you're this loving mum. Your dad was in and out, your

00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:38.719
parents split up. It turned out he had another family. Is that right? Yes, Yes, he did. Yeah, that's right. He

00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:44.360
Yeah, yeah, he had an affair. And, you know, he tried to

00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:50.480
basically run two families at the same time. I don't know what he was thinking, but the stress

00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:55.360
of that, of course. And often we found out when I was 9, so you sort of

00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:00.320
had a kid with me, mum and someone else around the same time. So it was a revelation to

00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:05.159
all of us. Was he? Married to your mum? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But you know, this is some

00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:09.920
stuff that sort of stays with you. I think when you you don't quite know what to do with it. And when I

00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:13.800
think you're the male role model leaves your life at a young age

00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:19.599
for boys and girls, to be fair, you know, it leaves this void. I,

00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:24.599
I, I I lost the plot for quite a while after he left. How? How present was your

00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:29.599
dad? He was flitting in and out really when he first left because obviously he left under extreme circumstances and

00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:35.199
then had to go and make a go of it with this other family, which was a disaster as well. Did he have

00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:40.159
many kids? Also, do you know what it was? It was the idea of knowing that I've got two siblings and never met him. You know that was weird

00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:44.880
for. Me Did you meet them later? I did. I wanted to. My brother didn't. He wasn't interested. But I I

00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:49.880
demanded it. You know, how did that go? You know, it was, it was odd because obviously I was

00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:54.679
still the oldest sibling out of all of them. And, you know,

00:42:54.679 --> 00:42:58.960
walking to a strange house with two sisters. That How old were you then?

00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:04.159
9/10. Did you become family sort of like? Well,

00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:08.760
I tried but. Then you've got two half sisters. Then is that right? Yeah. Yeah.

00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:14.039
I love dearly now, you know, But you can imagine how difficult it is to try and get your head

00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:18.920
around that as a child, you know? Is your dad still alive? Yes, he is. How's he doing? He's

00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:23.920
one of my best mates in the world now. I love him dearly. He's, you know, he's cracking on. He's 70 this

00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:28.360
year now. He's a, you know, grandfather, a great grandfather.

00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:33.719
He's trying to a young. 1. Yeah, No, listen, he, he's, he's really trying now.

00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:39.599
I think he's upbringing was very difficult and he didn't quite know to be a dad himself. And, you

00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:44.360
know, he, he just really struggled with it and affection and all them

00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:49.199
things. It was a provider for sure. And he grafted hard. But a decorator? A decorator? Yeah.

00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:54.880
What he? Grappled with, do you think what was going on in his background that made him? Because you've talked about

00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:57.599
his slight emotional

00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:03.800
withholding quality, but then he'd have a few drinks and become more affectionate. Yeah, he would. He would. I

00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:08.519
would prefer him drunk. Yeah, I know that's not the case for many people that have alcohol

00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:13.320
issues within their family. It's like when they have a drink, they turn into a nightmare. As he became softer, gentler,

00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:18.559
so it brought out a better side to him. He would actually forget by the next day, of course. And then

00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:23.559
you'd fall into a rhythm with him when he was pissed. And then God forbid you try and give him a cuddle the next day because it would be weird.

00:44:23.559 --> 00:44:28.320
But. Really. I think he's brought up a very strict father in the 50s

00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:33.360
and the 60s, very different world wasn't it was, you know, like that generation that were

00:44:33.519 --> 00:44:38.079
brought up and our government said if you're gay,

00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:43.199
you're going to go to prison. That's right. So when you're brought up with that, you're talking about our government,

00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:48.519
yeah, the people that you pay tax for that protect you and tell you these are the

00:44:48.519 --> 00:44:53.159
laws, this is what you're going to, this is how you should live your life. So, you know, when you're brought up in that

00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:57.880
environment and the way the media portray, you know, especially back in the

00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:02.679
day, you know, black people, people of colour, you know, these scum sort of

00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:07.639
newspapers, the way they, you know, you're going to create racist people, aren't you? You create racism

00:45:08.119 --> 00:45:12.519
if you're the narrative you're being fed. Of course it's changed now. You'd like to think

00:45:12.519 --> 00:45:17.159
slightly. Not much, though. It's a little bit more low key for me. But there's still elements of racism and

00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:22.159
glassism within the media for sure, especially the Red Sox. Oh. You're not a fan of

00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:27.000
the sun? Who is, you know I love Liverpool. You can't buy that fucking

00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:31.719
newspaper in Liverpool. You God forbid you get seen walking down. They made a stand,

00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:36.760
like most of us should really. Because it's they're kingmakers, you know what I mean?

00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:41.679
Where we all know that, you know, they get people in power they fancy, they like you get in bed with them, they will get you

00:45:41.679 --> 00:45:46.679
in government if they don't. Who? The son? The son especially. It's still owned by Murdoch,

00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:51.480
isn't it? Yeah. Well, that's what he controls most of our media, doesn't he? And why is he still alive as

00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:56.159
he, I mean, was he, was he jacking himself up with Luke that, you know, this case is still shuffling

00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:01.159
around fucking making these huge decisions. And, you know, it's heavy stuff. And

00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:06.079
I don't think it's acknowledged enough, you know, can you? Play the game with them a bit. Do you

00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:10.639
have? No, no, in any way shape or form and never will do. I am who I am. I

00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:15.159
absolutely take responsibility for some of the stories that will come out about me for sure. A lot of it's

00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:20.159
bollocks. I'm complete tabloid fodder. Even me speaking to you today, I know this is going to end up

00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:24.480
in some sort of click bait material. My publicist is probably sitting out there now, you know,

00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:29.679
shaking. The UFO. The bit with the UFO. Wish it was about that, you know, but there'll be nothing

00:46:29.679 --> 00:46:34.599
positive there. Was looking for salacious shite, aren't they? So, you know, I'm just an actor really just trying to

00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:39.559
feed his kids like everybody else and have a nice life. That's it. You. Were saying we were saying that so that

00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:44.559
you got you got state sanctioned homophobia laws against being. Yeah, that generation that's

00:46:44.599 --> 00:46:49.440
still around, you know, there's still an element of that in the air. There's still a generation of that people

00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:54.159
still alive. You can't blame them for thinking a certain way when the

00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:59.159
people that govern us told us that's how you should be thinking. So, you know, some of

00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:03.880
these ways, I don't blame him for it, you know? But you were saying, so then your dad left and

00:47:03.880 --> 00:47:08.840
then you, you, you kind of, you said you lost the plot a bit. Is that the term you use? Like what would you? What do you mean

00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:13.800
by that? I needed counselling and. As a young as a child. Or a young man really angry

00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:18.639
and lost. And I want the answers of why my dad did what he did and why he wasn't around anymore. Because as

00:47:18.639 --> 00:47:23.639
much as he wasn't tactile and, you know, somebody that was very good at being

00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:28.480
a parent, I loved him dearly, you know, and I looked up to him, you know, he was an alpha male and he was in a

00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:33.400
very alpha world, you know what I mean? And, you know, you know, spend a lot of time with him

00:47:33.400 --> 00:47:38.400
at the pub. I can't find him at the Bowser if he was there or, you know, we'd go watch West Ham. That's

00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:43.199
he introduced me to West Ham. So now we'd never know now and again we'd have a Father's Day out. But you know,

00:47:43.239 --> 00:47:47.800
I, I, he was all of a sudden he's gone and you're 9 and you're like, why? And,

00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:52.880
you know, and you take it out and your mum and people around you in school, I was being the twat and

00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:57.920
fighting and, you know, just completely lost. And so they so they all

00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:02.920
organized some counselling for me, I think what it was. So when I was 9, what was that

00:48:02.920 --> 00:48:07.880
would have been 86. Was it, you know, not a lot of parents split up even in the 80s. They

00:48:07.880 --> 00:48:12.280
stuck together like there was a mentality. Even if you hated your

00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:17.719
part, you, you stayed together. You know, you blank each other, probably sleep in separate beds. You

00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:22.599
drag your kids up and then maybe if you're brave enough, make a decision later in life that you

00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:27.360
will leave. But it just, I looked around at me mates and all of their

00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:31.920
parents were still together and I couldn't understand why mine couldn't do it. And your brain's

00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:36.559
developing. You're struggling and you're, there ain't no answers,

00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:41.800
is there? Well, the answer we know what it is, is that we don't, you know, he, he fucked it, you

00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:46.800
know, he had the fear, he got caught out and so he had to leave. But, you know, it

00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:51.800
really did affect me. And I think that it's when I sort of discovered drama as well. And and

00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:57.280
and I liked doing drama for some reason, even though that was sort of seen as being, you

00:48:57.280 --> 00:49:01.880
know, homosexual somewhat, but I loved it. Get getting lost in

00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:06.840
pretending to be other people or. How did you get into it? Was it that? School isn't it. It's just it's a

00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:11.639
less school productions when I went to secondary school, you know from. What kind of thing was it?

00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:16.840
Well, you, you, you would have a drama lesson. All of a sudden you have it in primary school and it's

00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:21.519
like, Oh, well, this is good. You know, like this hour. Hate maths, you know,

00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:26.599
geography, I hate, you know, English, boring. But this lesson you can go

00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:31.559
in and you do improvising. And, you know, most of the kids felt really uncomfortable when they

00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:36.440
hated it was I loved it. It was the one class I could excel at. Don't know why. Did

00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:41.280
you immediately realize that you had something? Like how quickly did you notice that maybe you

00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:46.239
had an ability at drama? Never thought that I could ever take it on as a career. I just felt that,

00:49:46.360 --> 00:49:51.360
you know? You just like doing. It became naturally. So how did it? Become. How did

00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:56.239
it become a career or like what point because you you were doing child. Actually, I was a single from a single parent family and my,

00:49:56.480 --> 00:50:01.480
my teacher and school, Mrs. Flynn, Jane Flynn, and she was always on me about you listen, you know, you've

00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:06.239
got to think about this as a career. You got to and you come from East London. It's just, it's just no, there's no avenues.

00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:11.960
You know, it's got worse now, unfortunately. Working class kids, what chance do

00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:16.719
they stand? So and I knew I would never be out again in a drama school because I didn't have the funding for it and all that sort of stuff. And,

00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:21.679
and she said to me, look, listen, there's a, there's a place called Wack, which is

00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:27.800
a place in Chalk farm for working class because not there

00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:32.039
anymore. I don't think it's gone. Commonwealth stands for WAC. She'd look it up.

00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:37.880
And, and, and because I was from a single parent family, I could go for free. That was on a Sunday. Now

00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:42.880
I've spoke about this interviews years ago and people think I used to go to, and I called it a Sunday school. So people think I was a

00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:47.760
church go. That wasn't what it was. I used to just have to get to chalk Farm 13 years of

00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:52.199
age. Quite a long way from a custom house. Yeah, we're very well, very far and

00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:57.760
I never really had the money for the train and stuff. I'd just have to bunk the fares and stuff and just get

00:50:57.760 --> 00:51:02.679
there. Sunday was a lot easier actually because sometimes the barriers would be open at Chalk Farm and I used to get

00:51:02.679 --> 00:51:07.679
on on the Overground at Custom House where there wasn't barriers. So that helped me and then I would change it Hackney

00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:12.599
and then jump on the tube. But it was great because I was with

00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:17.239
like minded kids who wanted to be actors, whereas when you're doing it in

00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:22.079
school, it's a lesson that most people don't want to do. So all of a sudden it really brought something out of me.

00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:27.239
And I went for a few months, loved it. My favorite day of the week.

00:51:27.599 --> 00:51:32.320
And then we did a workshop in front of some agents, Charlotte Kelly. And I was, I

00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:38.159
haven't seen her in years. And she came up to me and said I want to represent you. Got an audition

00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:42.880
for you tomorrow on the Monday, literally the next day for Prime

00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:47.719
Suspect Free. And that's when it started for me. And I didn't even understand what she was talking about, about representing

00:51:47.719 --> 00:51:52.639
manual agents were but quite understand what she meant. And she signed

00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:57.480
me up and I got and I went for that audition. Doreen Jones, who's

00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:02.440
dead now. She was an amazing, lovely lady. I went and found this door in Wardour

00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:06.880
St. got in there. I'd learnt my lines because I found learning lines quite easy.

00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:12.559
And I played a sex worker. And did you? Yeah. Young sex

00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:17.199
work. What? Sort of what? Prime suspect free. So it was a very controversial. One it was ATV

00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:22.039
detective series with Helen. Helen Mirren. Yeah. Peter Capaldi. And it played like a drag queen.

00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:27.519
You had Tom Bell in it back in the day. You played a young sex worker? What kind of catering?

00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:32.320
Time this kid right and it and and the storyline was about a young sex

00:52:32.320 --> 00:52:37.320
worker that had been murdered really. So so it was it was 93 subject.

00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:42.880
It was really heavy. It was about Peter Philly of in the police force higher up in the ranks. So it's one that hasn't been repeated a

00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:47.639
lot. You know, it's an incredible series. Prime suspect and Helen Mirren in a in a pump.

00:52:48.199 --> 00:52:53.199
And it was I just it was such a buzz. It was it was I can't explain how I

00:52:53.199 --> 00:52:57.840
felt. I was like, I loved showing off. And also my dad was my chaperone. My mum obviously had two

00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:02.000
siblings, so she couldn't come to Manchester with me. So my dad got that privilege

00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:07.960
and he came he got £50 a day. He was over the moon and I got to show off in front of me. Dad, you know,

00:53:07.960 --> 00:53:12.800
and he loved it and he felt part of it and he was all in the bar. We stayed in the V and a hotel. And, you know,

00:53:14.199 --> 00:53:18.800
there's the days when you could smoke inside and that. And so first time I had a cigarette in front of me. I've earned it. Now

00:53:19.239 --> 00:53:24.159
consider I'm getting you £50 a day. You've had a touch. Don't mum and I pull a fucking Benson out. And we

00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:28.960
would sit up in the bar with, you know, Helen Mirren. And Robbie

00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:33.880
Coltrane was filming Cracker at the same time he came in and, and it was like, I could see my dad's face being

00:53:33.880 --> 00:53:38.639
surrounded by famous people and, you know, just this joy. But it was always

00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:43.519
like, oh, OK, I love this. Can I? How long can I do it for? You know,

00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:48.440
that's the key. And you, you had the feeling of being good at it. Like did you have technique that you relied

00:53:48.440 --> 00:53:51.559
on? I don't want to be really prosaic, but no to what extent.

00:53:53.320 --> 00:53:58.159
It's instinct. It's it's you read it and you musically in your head go, oh,

00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:02.920
oh, I can see the beats of this. I understand what's important and what, what words are really

00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:07.320
important. So you'd naturally sort of go, oh, OK, how do I make this

00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:12.039
interesting? How do I make people want to watch me and listen to what I'm saying? And then the beauty of having a

00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:17.039
director is that they come in and then tweak you and go, oh, how about this, which is the complete opposite of what

00:54:17.039 --> 00:54:22.000
my instinct was saying. Like I never thought of that. I mean, this is all. This isn't my world at all. Like, but you know, they're

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:26.760
not supposed to give you line reads, are they? That's considered a faux pas. Is it like no do? You mean I'll

00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:31.599
say it that way? Oh no. That's right, that's considered undermining or. No, they'll give you an

00:54:31.599 --> 00:54:36.440
emotion. They'll say like bigger. Smaller, smaller, bigger, quicker. That's

00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:41.440
another one speed pace really, and it

00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:46.199
just makes you, you know, you play it differently with pace. Sometimes you want you to take your

00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:51.119
time more, especially if you've got a cry and find emotion. You need that time to find it and

00:54:51.159 --> 00:54:56.119
hopefully the words are good enough to make you cry if you really into it and you believe. Words. It's the belief of

00:54:56.119 --> 00:55:01.000
the words. Or you'd be thinking of something. Situation with the emotion and the situation really, you

00:55:01.000 --> 00:55:05.800
know, and I think I did some really, you know, talking about

00:55:05.800 --> 00:55:10.480
EastEnders. It's some really good work in East End. I'm really proud of it and the people that I've

00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:15.480
worked with there. And you know, I, I learned a lot from

00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:20.480
that job and about the speed. And I've just done a film really where I'm the only one in it. It's

00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:25.199
called free Quick breaths and I read it's 90 pages, just me in an office

00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:30.480
on the phone and I read it and it's such a it's like an episode of the Twilight Zone.

00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:36.159
This guy just has the worst day ever and never cuts away from me. And I read

00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:41.159
it and I thought this is amazing. Can I be fucked to do it? Can I do

00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:45.239
it because it's so hard? But it was my

00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:50.440
experience for me, standards that, that that got me through it, that learning every day. We

00:55:50.440 --> 00:55:54.880
show it in 10 days in Dublin and I had to learn 15 pages a day,

00:55:55.119 --> 00:55:59.320
1215 pages a day. So no one should react off, avoid an earpiece.

00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:05.000
And you know, I just feel kind of achieve it in a way, going back to Shakespeare, Maybe this was my

00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:09.960
Hamlet. Maybe this is my maybe that narcissist in me for can I be the

00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:14.960
only one in a film? And they sent it to me the other day. I watched it and I'm really proud of

00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:19.840
it. I think it comes out next year. But it's it's it's definitely

00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:24.840
an achievement. And I mean, it drove me insane at the end. I couldn't wait to

00:56:24.840 --> 00:56:29.719
finish it. I didn't see any of Dublin. I would learn my dialogue, 15

00:56:29.719 --> 00:56:34.440
pages, go to sleep, wake up in the morning, go to the studio, one set, one

00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:39.239
room, do it, wrap back symbolically. I have my

00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:44.159
script in a folder and I would RIP out the next 15 pages, throw the folder away,

00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:49.400
sit there. I'd have one pint of Guinness and I would bam, bam, bam. Learn it, drill

00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:54.280
it, drill it, drill it. And this is what actors need to remember is there's no excuses for not knowing your lines because

00:56:54.440 --> 00:56:59.079
you need to drill it get you need to feel like this dialogue is possessing you. It

00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:04.639
doesn't matter what time you fall asleep, as long as you can open your eyes and recite any line from any

00:57:04.639 --> 00:57:09.360
point and you can go to work and enjoy yourself. The ones that don't know their lines are really

00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:14.320
old and you've got to make exceptions. I just can't be bothered. You don't put your own work in, then you're going

00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:19.280
to struggle the next day and you're going to hold everything up. You're going to be embarrassed, you're going to feel awkward. Do your

00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:24.199
homework. It's boring. It's so boring learning lines and it's irritating

00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:29.039
and. Then does it disappear quite quick? Like can you still recall monologues

00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:33.960
from? No, for me it's retained delete, retained delete. Really. And

00:57:33.960 --> 00:57:38.960
especially on a show like EastEnders, you can't. Your brain can't retain that much, so you need to sort of expel it as quickly as

00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:43.960
you possibly can. So Are you ready for the next scene? What I mean, you sort of talked about EastEnders in terms of technique, but

00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:48.639
career wise, what did it do for you? Saved my career, absolutely

00:57:48.920 --> 00:57:53.880
no one would hire me. And Dominic Treadwell Collins, who then went on to put me

00:57:53.880 --> 00:57:58.880
in Rivals. He, he, he, he took a chance on me. Was he the director? He was the producer.

00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:03.760
Producer. Series producer. They change him every two years. Why did your career need saving? I I'd made

00:58:03.760 --> 00:58:08.679
so many bad films and bad, bad decisions. My drug taking was bad. Stop

00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:13.920
it. Yeah, I was in a mad place in my life. I, I, I'd almost fucked it all up. I'd had a

00:58:13.920 --> 00:58:17.960
good run. I'd made some films, Football Factory, the business. I was on a higher,

00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:24.039
but I, I didn't quite know I had to deal with it. I'd made some bad decisions. I said yes to stuff I

00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:28.920
shouldn't have, you know, and. Were you were the drugs as a kind of a

00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:33.639
solution to the problem or were they the problem? Do you know what I mean? Just to try to have fun in a

00:58:33.639 --> 00:58:38.559
sense, if that's what you do. And it is fun at the beginning, taking drugs, but then when it starts

00:58:38.559 --> 00:58:43.199
to take over your life and you can't manage your life anymore, you've got children and you're, you're spending all your money on,

00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:48.480
you know, just getting off your head all the time. It's just and you want to be, you know, you have a moment of

00:58:48.480 --> 00:58:53.239
clarity and then you go, what were you doing? But also. You sound like you had the stamina. To.

00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:58.800
Work on a serious. But that was my that was my downfall as well. A good capacity

00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:03.599
for them. You know, I know there's plenty of lightweight so a bit spewy and a bit, you know, they always want to go to bed.

00:59:03.719 --> 00:59:08.199
Wish I had a bit of that about me and that way I wouldn't have took so many because I couldn't have functioned

00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:13.480
so I could function while being off me head. But. Did you have a sort of drug of choice, as they

00:59:13.480 --> 00:59:18.320
say? I did love

00:59:18.599 --> 00:59:23.440
an event that took me really high and then I would obviously have need something to

00:59:23.440 --> 00:59:28.239
calm me the fuck down. So sort of diazepam and Valium as well. So to. Take the to

00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:32.719
take you back down. It's very dangerous for your heart. In your Yeah, I was going to say, how's your health?

00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:38.639
Well I have check UPS. You look good. I do have a pair of tits and a belly so does that does that help? I

00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:43.480
don't see any color chins not losing the air. I don't know. Though you look good.

00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:48.039
I have medical check outs for jobs you know. Do you work out?

00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:53.320
No, no, absolutely not. I fast in the day just to keep the weight off.

00:59:53.480 --> 00:59:58.360
I feel like if you fast it's good for your body as well. I mean ideally I

00:59:58.360 --> 01:00:03.320
want to build up to not eating anything on a Monday, just liquids so your body

01:00:03.320 --> 01:00:07.519
can start to it starts to eat itself

01:00:08.199 --> 01:00:12.880
and heal itself. It's a thing. But I was just

01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:17.800
struggle. Monday's just shy anyway. And I say, you know, you got to look forward to your dinner on a Monday. But

01:00:18.199 --> 01:00:23.159
I do fast during the day until the afternoon. You've got

01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:28.119
to drink plenty of water while you're doing it. And it does work because I think it's the brown fat and the white fat.

01:00:29.360 --> 01:00:34.320
White fat turns to brown fat and then you piss it out basically. Which is better to stand in the gym

01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:39.320
with loads of, you know, people on steroids? What about are you sober now? Like are

01:00:39.320 --> 01:00:44.320
you kind of? No, I've found a thing and I know there's a lot of recovering addicts out there that will be saying it's impossible to

01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:49.320
do what I've done. Nick love being one of them. I'm an exception to the role. What Nick love is completely. He's

01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:54.119
been so on the wagon for 38 years now. He was on Harry when he was 17 and he

01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:59.519
went to rehab, come straight and went rehab, went to film school. But he's obsessed with it still.

01:00:59.519 --> 01:01:04.440
Hedonism and all that. He writes about it and he writes for my or ego in a way or he's or where we go.

01:01:05.679 --> 01:01:10.320
So I've managed to. I can drink now. Did you tie one on after the

01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:15.199
Baftas? It was a Sunday. Night again. When you're at the Baftas, you've been to

01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:19.840
these things, you especially if you win one, everyone sort of wants to have a vote you and poke you about, and

01:01:20.360 --> 01:01:25.280
it's not relaxing. No, it wasn't. No. But I was on a high anyway. So it was entirely up to my daughters what they

01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:30.079
wanted to do. If this is what we was going to do, if I would have lost, which I thought was

01:01:30.079 --> 01:01:34.599
going to, was going to get straight in the car, was going to get him at McDonald's on the way home. That was the key.

01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:39.760
But actually I won. So we stayed and had a bit of dinner and then I left at about

01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:44.679
10:45. Yeah, me too. And I didn't but. There was an after party and there was. A fancy, all that. No, no.

01:01:44.679 --> 01:01:49.639
And I had to drive to Bristol the next day, so you know, it was and also I didn't want to,

01:01:50.119 --> 01:01:55.000
I didn't want to taint the night. Start these things for too long and you get

01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:59.840
more and more pissed than you do something or say something where you ruin it all. You're still capable of getting a little

01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:04.480
bit messy from. Oh God, it's always in you. It's always. It's about recognizing it now. I never

01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:09.320
recognized it before. On Desert Island Discs you talk about not being able to put your trousers on or

01:02:09.320 --> 01:02:13.880
take. The moment of clarity where I had been on it all night

01:02:14.239 --> 01:02:19.239
after the Ntas. It was, I think. National Television Awards. Think I'd won and that's always on

01:02:19.239 --> 01:02:24.000
like a Tuesday or something and I had to go to work. There was the other thing

01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:28.519
about with EastEnders, you know, they go, yeah, come celebrate NT as but you are up at 7:00 in the morning. So

01:02:29.239 --> 01:02:34.039
anyway, I I'd just overdone it again and I just could not

01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:38.519
work out to get my jeans on. Which part of it? I was just sitting on my

01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:43.199
ensuite toilet trying to work out what leg goes in what and it just,

01:02:43.480 --> 01:02:48.480
I don't know why. I'm sure I've had many of their moments over the years of me being completely off my head,

01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:53.480
but that one really resonated with me. And it was more because I looked up, my wife was just watching

01:02:53.480 --> 01:02:58.360
me and she looked shattered and she looked ill. And

01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:03.360
of course, you know the drug taken and the madness that comes with it. You, you, you're destroying

01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:08.239
yourself and your body and you're slowly killing yourself, but you also you're really upsetting the people around you.

01:03:08.239 --> 01:03:13.039
And that was I just looked at even through this moment of it was off my head, but it was

01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:17.840
just everything seems to just sort of go the fuck are you doing to to people

01:03:17.840 --> 01:03:22.280
around you that love you. And it was that moment and I could hear

01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:27.440
Artie, my son, who's now 11. He must have been three. He was running around downstairs

01:03:28.119 --> 01:03:32.960
and I think I've got rid of the last straggler out of me house and the. Time would have. Thought it would have. Well, it would have been

01:03:32.960 --> 01:03:37.880
about half six, 6:45. What, in the morning? Yeah. So you've been. Yeah. That's got work.

01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:42.519
So I had a car picking me up to take me to work and and it's just this

01:03:42.519 --> 01:03:47.360
moment I thought, shit, you're going to die, you're going to kill yourself. You're not

01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:52.159
happy. You're spanking all your money on drugs, you're destroying everything around you. It's

01:03:52.719 --> 01:03:57.679
weird that moment because I went straight to work that day and I was a bit off me and I did say this and I

01:03:57.679 --> 01:04:02.679
need to, I need help. I can't do this anymore. I need help. I don't know what it is,

01:04:03.639 --> 01:04:08.360
but I need to. This is a crossroads in my life where I need a gear change and I need it now

01:04:09.320 --> 01:04:14.079
because don't be I'm going to survive this year. And so, you know,

01:04:14.079 --> 01:04:19.079
I, I want to give a shout out to Louisa Bradshaw White, who played my

01:04:19.079 --> 01:04:23.880
sister Tina, who really came to the front for me more than anybody

01:04:23.880 --> 01:04:28.760
else. We'll put an arm around you and said. Well, she'd always said that she thinks I've got an issue and problem. No

01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:33.559
one else would say that to me. People, I don't know, people don't want to busy their self in your life

01:04:33.559 --> 01:04:38.559
either, whatever I represented. Big statement to say to someone you've got a problem. Yeah. But then, but then I've had

01:04:38.559 --> 01:04:43.559
that from Nick a lot who obviously, you know, had been in recovery and he could

01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:48.519
see signs in me. And of course, you know, I'll be like whatever, you know, it's only when you actually realize you have to, you have

01:04:48.519 --> 01:04:52.760
to really have a moment yourself that you you should never go into

01:04:52.760 --> 01:04:57.559
recovery for other people. It should be doing it for you to be a better person.

01:04:58.119 --> 01:05:02.920
But she had always, whenever you're ready, just let me know. That was always a vibe with

01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:07.880
me and then I was ready. I wonder if she'd been through something or how. She has she's, you know,

01:05:07.880 --> 01:05:12.840
she's out of issues like like a lot of people have really, and a lot of people in my life, you know, I've seen a lot of people go

01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:17.400
through some quite heavy stuff and always for oh fucking hell, that's quite heavy. God,

01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:22.280
glad I'm not that bad. And it turns out I was. It just took me a longer route to get there. So,

01:05:22.760 --> 01:05:27.679
you know, it's about taking ownership and all that, that wave of destruction

01:05:27.679 --> 01:05:32.559
you've left behind you, you know, hopefully you can make amends to people and just be a better person. You

01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:37.440
know that's try and be around for as long as you can. But when you came out presumably in rehab,

01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:42.440
they say no, you got to quit it like this is it doesn't work, no half measures. Do they not say? Yeah,

01:05:42.440 --> 01:05:47.440
no, that's the theory. I mean, if you do the 12 steps, of course, absolutely enough. And I think that's that is the case

01:05:47.840 --> 01:05:52.000
for me. I had other issues and I need a lot of therapy about why I was doing what I was doing. And

01:05:53.079 --> 01:05:58.039
I spoke about this recently about abandonment issues and stuff like that and role models leaving me and me putting the press

01:05:58.039 --> 01:06:02.920
the fucking button and fine, really fucking my head up. And you know, so I've got

01:06:02.920 --> 01:06:07.280
some answers that I needed. I did live by it. I tried the 12 steps

01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:12.920
lot of admin for me. You know, it works for people, which saves people's

01:06:12.920 --> 01:06:17.639
lives. And I know living proof of that. It's almost like it's a

01:06:17.639 --> 01:06:22.480
spiritual awakening where you hand over your life to a

01:06:22.800 --> 01:06:27.760
higher power. And so I can't manage it. So I'm going to hand it over to whatever that you

01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:32.519
what you want it to be, and I'm going to trust the steps. Did you

01:06:32.519 --> 01:06:37.400
do the right? I did it for a bit, yeah. You said Harold Pinter might be your higher. He is

01:06:37.400 --> 01:06:41.480
my power. I do feel that he is definitely something, someone

01:06:42.079 --> 01:06:46.920
that was. I quite like this spiritual aspect. I'm not a

01:06:46.920 --> 01:06:51.920
religious person, but I like the idea of someone watching over you and just sort

01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:56.280
of dragging you by the fucking collar now and again through certain

01:06:56.280 --> 01:07:01.280
moments. And. I just think that we had a mad bond. He was

01:07:01.280 --> 01:07:06.239
the he was somebody who came into me love as a bit of a father figure for a period of time

01:07:06.920 --> 01:07:11.119
and spoke to me in a way like no one else had the bollocks to

01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:16.920
and got me. And yeah, it's weird. And then I

01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:21.639
fucked up again and listen. Do you mean the New Yorkers?

01:07:21.639 --> 01:07:26.559
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's been well rehearsed. You talked about it, but basically you did a play with him in New York,

01:07:27.079 --> 01:07:31.880
you discovered. Yourself then? Yeah, I did. Yeah. I've never been to America. Froze. Up on stage. All of a sudden I'm on

01:07:31.880 --> 01:07:36.159
Broadway, you know, and I, you know, and I got involved in shit I probably shouldn't have. Well, I shouldn't have.

01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:42.199
The arrogance of me thinking I can puff on a, you know, fat pipe and then walk straight on a stage and

01:07:42.199 --> 01:07:47.199
do pint. It's just ridiculous, you know? But I learned the hard way. Were you curious to try it or were

01:07:47.199 --> 01:07:52.079
you trying to manage some anxiety issues? I just love getting off me head. That's the truth.

01:07:52.239 --> 01:07:56.960
And the thing about when you do a play fear such a bad existence, you

01:07:57.280 --> 01:08:02.280
don't quite know what to do with yourself all day. You're flitting around. You don't want to be too early or too

01:08:02.280 --> 01:08:07.000
late. You know, you got to get into town for a certain time and then you hit your call and then

01:08:07.199 --> 01:08:12.079
you know, you build up to do the show and then you do it when you're knocking the adrenaline that's running

01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:17.039
through your body and then the show closes, say half nine, 10:00 and your adrenaline still go. So what do you do with

01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:22.000
yourself? Do you know what I mean? It's like this high because you know, ideally you'd like

01:08:22.000 --> 01:08:26.600
to do the play and a lot of actors do that technique of calming down, go home,

01:08:26.920 --> 01:08:31.840
have a cup of tea, go to bed. It all starts again. It's a cycle. And I suppose when you've

01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:36.840
been doing it for as long as we've done that play, I knew it back to front if I could get away with which play was, it was

01:08:36.840 --> 01:08:41.479
called Celebration. It was the last play he wrote. Was

01:08:42.880 --> 01:08:47.720
it? It was all set in a restaurant like the Ivy. He was sort of taking the piss out of the Ivy and the bollocks that comes with the

01:08:47.720 --> 01:08:52.359
people that frequent it. And I played the waiter and it's a, it's a, it's a

01:08:52.359 --> 01:08:57.079
brilliant piece of work. It's cuts between 2 tables. And I sort of link it

01:08:57.079 --> 01:09:02.079
together by bringing food out every night. And, you know, it was a, it was a wonderful piece of work. And

01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:06.760
it was a really an ensemble place. And I let everybody down. I've never. I've still, I've still

01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:11.840
not over it. Let them down How? Well, if you, when you dry on stage, and it does happen, by

01:09:11.840 --> 01:09:16.840
the way people dry, it's a hard gig. You're not just letting

01:09:16.840 --> 01:09:21.640
yourself down. Let them all them down, aren't you? They know they're lines, they're sweet, they're on it. And then you don't know your

01:09:21.640 --> 01:09:26.199
lines or what? You leave them in a situation where you know, because they was all looking at me,

01:09:26.560 --> 01:09:31.560
fuming, going, going in, prick. I think they knew I'd been out. So they're sort of going,

01:09:31.560 --> 01:09:36.479
well, you've got yourself in this mess. And then, and I didn't know what I was going to walk off. And then

01:09:36.479 --> 01:09:41.000
Andy Delatour, who was at the table that I interject in, said, oh, I bet your

01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:45.680
grandfather knew CS Lewis didn't, you know something like that prompted you. Yeah. And then I went, oh,

01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:51.640
yes, yeah, he did. And then and then, of course, my repetition of doing it so much,

01:09:51.640 --> 01:09:56.359
I said it and done it. Hated every second of it. All of a sudden I hated acting, hated

01:09:56.359 --> 01:10:01.239
myself. Such a it was such a powerful moment for me that never really recovered from it

01:10:01.239 --> 01:10:06.079
because I never used to get nervous like before any play I'd ever

01:10:06.079 --> 01:10:11.079
done. I, I was always well drilled and I loved it and was, you know, loved showing

01:10:11.079 --> 01:10:15.960
off. And then when it went really badly wrong for me, any, any play I've done since, I've shot myself

01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:20.960
every night because I know the feeling of when it goes wrong. Of course, I look after myself now and

01:10:20.960 --> 01:10:25.760
I'm not in my dressing room with a pipe banging at me, mouth so very different to now.

01:10:25.760 --> 01:10:30.560
But you're still there. That feeling of vulnerability and

01:10:30.560 --> 01:10:34.880
you're, you know, the blood rushing from my feet to my head. I always remember it

01:10:35.560 --> 01:10:40.279
of going, Oh my God, everyone's waiting for me to speak and just sort of

01:10:40.279 --> 01:10:45.119
shrinking into myself, which is an actor. Once your confidence is gone,

01:10:45.279 --> 01:10:50.199
you're done. Do you think the audience could tell? No, really. Well, the great thing about Pinto is he's

01:10:50.199 --> 01:10:55.199
known for posing. Isn't it? So, so no, no one, no, only me in the cast. And

01:10:55.199 --> 01:10:59.880
of course, Harold, he sort of put his arm around me and made me feel worse because he was sort of being passive

01:10:59.880 --> 01:11:04.560
aggressive with me. Really, what did he do? Well, he just sort of said, if ever there's an ensemble piece down here to

01:11:04.560 --> 01:11:09.000
this, you do need to get to bed. And I was like, oh, he knows

01:11:09.439 --> 01:11:13.840
because I went straight through. I remember coming back from wherever I was. It was in

01:11:13.840 --> 01:11:18.359
Soho. I remember sucking on a pipe and looking at the clock and it was 1:45 in the

01:11:18.359 --> 01:11:23.279
afternoon. I'm thinking, shit, I've got to be on stage at six and then. On a crack pipe. Jimmy Yeah. And

01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:28.279
then got back to the hotel because we were all standing the same hotel

01:11:28.279 --> 01:11:33.239
praying I didn't bump into. I hold in the fucking reception, just forget to

01:11:33.239 --> 01:11:37.960
your room and hopefully you can fall asleep and then. It would have been 1:45 in the morning in the.

01:11:37.960 --> 01:11:42.960
Afternoon, OH. Stop here. Yeah. Oh, God, no, not no. That's a good. That's an early night.

01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:48.000
Really quarter two in the afternoon, you were on the, you were on the pipe. You've been on it all night. Yeah. I

01:11:48.039 --> 01:11:52.960
finished the play. We've done on your own. We've done it. No, I was with other people. Should we draw a veil? Over that

01:11:52.960 --> 01:11:57.840
part of it, well, you know it. Would have been just local characters. No, no, no. I knew

01:11:57.840 --> 01:12:02.720
people out there. So it was. Expats or you you'd

01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:07.640
found a little crude. Other actors and stuff, really. But you know, you live and learn through these

01:12:07.640 --> 01:12:12.640
experiences and to take full responsibility for it. And I, you know,

01:12:12.840 --> 01:12:17.800
punished myself. You know, there's a lot of people that would have gone missing. And

01:12:17.800 --> 01:12:22.720
I did have an understudy. It's almost worse if you do that in a way, the other actors hate you

01:12:22.720 --> 01:12:27.680
more for using an understudy, you know. So I just thought, no, no, you've

01:12:27.680 --> 01:12:32.680
got yourself in this mess. You knew that you were in trouble like when you. Arrived. But I thought, you know what? You've

01:12:32.680 --> 01:12:37.600
done it enough. Yes, you're wired, but you, you

01:12:37.600 --> 01:12:42.479
can do it, you know, you're, you're bulletproof. And it turns out I won't. And and

01:12:43.439 --> 01:12:48.399
it stuck with me ever since, you know, So you know, I'm due fair again when I've got

01:12:48.399 --> 01:12:52.800
time and I do want to get back on the horse. I've done a couple of stuff. I did the dumb waiter in

01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:57.720
2019 with Martin Freeman. That was a 2. And yeah, it was amazing. That's a great pin to

01:12:57.720 --> 01:13:02.600
play. That's about the 2. Men, I would say to anyone out there that doesn't know about Pinter, read the dumb waiter

01:13:02.600 --> 01:13:07.600
first and then you'll go or quite like this and then you can start getting into the caretaker and all the other stuff that

01:13:07.600 --> 01:13:12.600
you. Caretaker. We I did that one at school, birthday parties, another. One party, I mean, the room's a great

01:13:12.600 --> 01:13:17.560
one as well. The dialogue's incredible. It's so conversational, which is what dialogue should be,

01:13:18.319 --> 01:13:22.920
and it sort of really rolled off my tongue quite easily. His dialogue

01:13:23.520 --> 01:13:27.920
really clever. His work is. It's like when you do one of his plays

01:13:28.159 --> 01:13:33.119
professionally and you put it on in the West End. It's the audiences are so different because there's

01:13:33.119 --> 01:13:37.880
always this humour running through it, but there's also an element of

01:13:37.880 --> 01:13:42.800
dread and some audiences cling on to the humor. They're laughing and they're

01:13:42.800 --> 01:13:47.560
rolling around the same play by the way, you know, you know you've got white. They're laughing

01:13:47.560 --> 01:13:51.880
so much for your next line. And then other nights just silence.

01:13:52.520 --> 01:13:57.000
Same dialogue planet the same, but they cling on to the dread and the

01:13:57.000 --> 01:14:01.960
undertone instead of it and itself. It's quite off putting. That's what's made him so

01:14:01.960 --> 01:14:06.840
clever to me and such a genius. You know, I, I would love to have got

01:14:06.840 --> 01:14:10.960
into more fear, I think. And there's no money in it though, Louie, I'm going to be honest.

01:14:11.680 --> 01:14:16.279
It's, it's weird that because you bare your soul on a stage every night, what your

01:14:16.279 --> 01:14:20.800
bollocks off is the hardest thing for any actor to do. I don't care who you are, but you don't get no money.

01:14:21.239 --> 01:14:24.000
What about Hollywood? Yeah,

01:14:27.600 --> 01:14:32.600
well, I don't know. I I did go over there years ago and did the whole classic, you know, I'm the next big

01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:37.119
thing and I just can't be bothered. You did a bunch of meetings.

01:14:37.560 --> 01:14:42.560
Yeah, got an agent, manager, lawyer you got to get. That's right. But I, I to live, they

01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:47.119
wanted me to live there for six months and I had, you know, small

01:14:47.119 --> 01:14:52.119
children and I hated the fact that they wanted me to speak American all the time,

01:14:52.479 --> 01:14:55.800
which is what you're meant to do out there. And I thought I was Australian. Did they?

01:14:57.640 --> 01:15:02.119
So I was constantly just having to. What, you're supposed to take meetings and speak

01:15:02.119 --> 01:15:07.000
American? They encourage you to. Could you do that? No. Yeah, you could. I couldn't be

01:15:07.000 --> 01:15:11.960
bothered. Can I be bothered how desperate you want to be? I mean, I understand that's where the work is

01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:16.720
and that's the ultimate, but can I be bothered to go and live out there on

01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:21.720
my own, talking American all the time to everybody, pretending I'm someone else? No. Can

01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:26.479
I be fucked? So anyway, the other way. Can you do a good American accent? Well, it's the

01:15:26.760 --> 01:15:31.680
American Americans, not my name is Danny Dyer. My name is Danny Dyer and

01:15:31.760 --> 01:15:36.640
I'm here with Louis Faroux and his podcast

01:15:36.760 --> 01:15:41.199
Not yet, of course, Americans not odd, but it's doing it all the time.

01:15:42.119 --> 01:15:46.680
Anyway, we've got to wrap this up and we're. Going to wrap this up. Yeah, thank you for that, Danny. I really appreciate it.

01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:03.319
Welcome back. How are you doing? I hope you enjoyed that. That was a lot of fun having Danny in the house.

01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:08.119
A little bit chastening at times to be reminded of.

01:16:09.760 --> 01:16:14.479
How do we put it? Well, we compared our documentary making techniques

01:16:14.479 --> 01:16:18.920
and Danny wasn't shy about letting me know that I'd be

01:16:18.920 --> 01:16:23.920
limited right in some respects. He said I'd be fair game on a traveller site and he couldn't

01:16:23.920 --> 01:16:28.760
imagine me having a fag hanging out or swearing and that I'd be tight with the old bill.

01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:34.960
Go to a dinner party with some DCS. I don't think

01:16:34.960 --> 01:16:39.800
he quite got my number. I mean I I plead

01:16:39.800 --> 01:16:44.600
guilty to being leading kind of ivory tower existence

01:16:45.760 --> 01:16:47.760
swanking around show business parties.

01:16:51.600 --> 01:16:55.399
I'm not that tight with the old bill. Would I

01:16:57.399 --> 01:17:02.399
What do they say? Sing like a Canary? Would I snitch? Would I drop

01:17:03.199 --> 01:17:07.760
a dime on that's the American expression and he would be

01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:14.000
malefactors. Would I try to shop am IA Dubber? I don't

01:17:14.000 --> 01:17:18.960
think so. Well, but am I actually? Maybe I am, if someone's getting

01:17:18.960 --> 01:17:23.520
up to no good. You do call the police, don't you? Is that dobbing?

01:17:24.640 --> 01:17:29.640
Perhaps I am a dobber, but I wouldn't dob on like if I was making a documentary. I

01:17:29.640 --> 01:17:32.159
don't think you're making a film then. It's different. Different rules.

01:17:35.760 --> 01:17:39.960
He'd eat you like a Yorkie bar. Still working on that accent

01:17:41.680 --> 01:17:46.000
that was Paddy Doherty. If you've been affected by the topics discussed in this episode,

01:17:46.199 --> 01:17:49.880
Spotify do have a website. For information and resources, visit

01:17:49.880 --> 01:17:54.880
spotify.com/resources. I think that's it, except for credits.

01:17:55.119 --> 01:18:00.039
The producer was Millie Chu, the assistant producer was Artemis Irvin, the production manager

01:18:00.039 --> 01:18:04.840
was Francesca Bassett, and the executive producer was Aaron Fellows. The music in this

01:18:04.840 --> 01:18:09.560
series was by Miguel de Oliveira. This is a Mind House production for Spotify.